In Conversation: Eden Sher and Charlie McDermott

Having spent her formative years playing the character of Sue Heck on the hit ABC series The Middle, Eden Sher grew up on screen, in front of millions around the world. But as she ventured into adulthood and began to find her own identity, the image of the socially awkward, braces-wearing teen she played was hard to shake. I Was on a Sitcom is the story of being a sitcom actor and growing up in the public eye, but it’s also the story of the very real trauma that Sher faced in her personal life, both beyond the show and in terms of this internal struggle between Eden and Sue. 

I Was on a Sitcom is directed by Sara Rejaie and Charlie McDermott, the latter best known for playing Sue Heck’s brother Axl on The Middle. Ahead of their arrival at the Fringe, Sher and McDermott sit down to speak about their friendship and what it was like to reunite and explore their sitcom experience together.

 

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Eden Sher: We didn’t know each other before The Middle and then we met while working, and you know the term fast friends? When you work with someone, it's like summer camp a little bit. But then when you do it for nine years, you get the closeness of summer camp, but they’re just your friends and that's what it is.

Charlie McDermott: Being on a family sitcom and being the only two teenagers, it made sense we would be friends. Also, the first time we met I was in my underwear at a wardrobe fitting. 

Eden: Yes, that is true. And I was getting yelled at at the time.

Charlie: So perfect for bonding. 

Eden: Yeah, and then we became friends and we became quite close. And then I guess the first time we worked together outside of The Middle was in a directing capacity. You had written this movie and you were like, ‘we’re going to shoot it, do you want to be in it?’. I knew you could write but I realised then that you were actually a very good director. And how old were you?

Charlie: I just turned 22. It was more of an experiment for directing. Because the script was not there which is why the movie has never been released!

Eden: But I think it's honestly a testament to your directing abilities that I felt that I was in such good hands. We'd develop the character together and it was so collaborative. So whatever the material was, the fact that you did such a good job was very impressive. But then you also directed that episode of The Middle, right?

Charlie: Yeah and I'm not trying to come off super humble but it was actually very easy. Because the show was almost over by that point so everyone just knew what their job was. So I’d kind of just show up and be like – thumbs up. But to do something like that on such a big scale was a huge experience. And it was fun too.

Eden: And then with this, it’s so funny to think back on. You had come back to LA after being in the UK all through Covid with Sara [Rejaie, Charlie’s wife and co-director]. We were reconnecting and hanging out, and I had applied for the Fringe with this show, which I was very excited about. I was thick into the writing process and I knew it needed a director but I didn’t know who to ask because it felt like a favour and also, I thought no one would be available. It needed to be someone very specific and I was a little nervous to ask you because it was a huge favour. But there’s literally no person in the entire world who would have a better understanding of the material and be able to execute it. I was blown away that you and Sara jumped right in and had incredible notes off the bat. You guys really put your full force into it and the show became something I’m really proud of.

Eden Sher, photo by Jill Petracek

Charlie: We were really proud of it too. I was also really glad for Sara’s involvement because at the beginning, having two sitcom actors writing about being on a sitcom – it went a little too deep. So Sara, who has never been on a sitcom, would say to us at times this part means nothing to me. It's meaningful for you guys but it’s missing the mark and I think this helped us balance the tone really well. It took a while to find the tone but the content was all there from the start. All the stuff you wrote, it was basically a case of choosing what to omit and what to focus on. The main chunk of the show is pretty much unchanged from that first document. What it ended up being was just finessing the opening and closing, for the most part. 

Eden: It took hours and hours of work but in terms of the timespan, it was about a month. A non-stop month!

Charlie: I've never worked under such a tight time constraint and it was really exciting for us because you really can just hold yourself to a deadline and really do quite a lot with a short amount of time.

Eden: And that's why I was so grateful. If I had any director come in, they would just direct what was on the page. But you and Sara, you came in and you directed the script; you made the direction of the script go to a different place. You would almost give me assignments and homework, and I was like 'thank fucking god'. Because I had no direction, I just had all these thoughts and all this content and things that I wanted to say and a real story, but I didn’t know how to tell it. And you guys helped me tell it and it was a very special experience.

Charlie: Yeah it was for us too. And I’m remembering now that what we ended up doing completely changed. The first two weeks, I was writing down sound cues, musical cues, sound effects, lighting – that was initially the job. And then as the first show was approaching, we’d switched from directing in a physical sense and what we were doing was almost like post-production in a movie, but before the show; we were watching and editing it. We had never done stage before; we’d done short films and music videos but this was really cool, almost like reverse engineering a show.

Eden: But I think that’s what made it so special. You guys are not theatre directors; you saw specific scenes through the lens of, well how would we shoot this? The blocking translated to things like this is a POV shot. And even the physicality of it; we’re both very physical performers so you just got it immediately. 

Charlie: But again, the thing that felt so good about this was that that main chunk was there from the beginning. It definitely came from you – there was something very real and visceral about that main section.

Eden: I genuinely think no one could have fixed that except for you and Sara. I think the show would have fallen apart but you guys just knew what the problem was straight away. I have such a hard time separating writer and performing, so to split myself in three and add director, I just couldn’t. But you guys took on the phrase kill your darlings and it was a massacre but I was so thankful because I needed it.

Charlie: When I watch it now, it’s still a gut punch. But because it’s not our personal story, we had the separation to be able to say, OK, you only have 55 minutes. You have to cut some things and these are the things. But honestly, it was hard for us as well because so much of it worked on stage but then you do naturally get kicked off after a set amount of time. So that was our biggest fear – running out of time. If I asked someone to direct and then they let me go up there and run out of time, that would be terrible. But it was hard to cut because there was a lot of stuff that we loved. 

Eden: The show is very much about my experience living with being on a sitcom for nine years. But it’s about my experience being me outside of the show. I have twins and I had a crazy birth experience and basically, it all ties in and is about that. I wasn’t sure how to tie it all in and I often thought we needed to make the sitcom aspect a very separate thing. But then you guys said, no it’s about the emotion. This is your story; the story of the birth of your children and it all connects.

Charlie: The thing that resonated for me and for Sara, and the thing that we found very new that neither of us have seen, is this compounding of being a recognisable character. Not even a person, but the character of Sue Heck, in your formative years and then becoming an adult post-that and being constantly tied to that is a kind of out of body experience. And it can vary from being very silly and funny to then actually sometimes being oddly traumatic, especially when it touches your personal life, in ways that you don't expect. Having those two things converge on top of one another was dense and honestly I'm still unpacking it. 

Eden: The pitch of it is being on a sitcom, it’s actually so different from being a movie star. Because when you're a movie star, there's not this blending of reality and fiction. This is an interruption of someone literally thinking you’re a different person. And then again, being on a sitcom during your formative years, it’s not like you played a totally invented character. I had put so much of my real self into this character, so then when people are like ‘you’re this other person’, it’s like, well I kind of am. But I’m also not. But maybe I am? And so that's what the show really deals with; the confusion in my daily life about whether it matters how people see me. But it does matter and that’s the problem – I can see myself a certain way but it doesn't matter if people see me a different way. 

Charlie: Yeah and the thing I think you're trying to talk about is how you feel like your body has become this character on the show. That is in a sense the out of body experience when you're recognised in public and people call you Sue or me Axl. That’s my image but that isn't who I am. It separates you from your body in this weird way. And then you, in a very real sense, kind of had this separation physically. When I watch the show, that's what really draws me to it and makes me keep thinking about it. Because I've never experienced that. 

Eden: Yeah, it is when people think you're another person, and they're technically not wrong. You think I'm this person and we're living in two completely different realities, and you're correct. And I am correct. So how do we reconcile this? I don't know what to do here. The show really gets to the heart of emotion about being a mum, being a sitcom character, growing up on TV, and it's just interesting – trust me!

Charlie: I feel like if you're interested in experiencing the most extreme example of a kind of dissociative psychological experience of a sitcom child star in an adult world, then you'll be satisfied with this show.