Interview: Reuben Kaye

For many of us that look different or go about life as an outlier, the world can feel small and scary. It’s not just the rise of dangerous right-wing rhetoric or the way our systems prop up the wrong voices; it’s an innate feeling that the landscape has shifted for the worse. But there are glimmers of hope. Hope in the form of individuals that understand the power of their voice and the power of their art.

"The fact is, less shit gets done if you're a cunt about it," Reuben Kaye says, as we chat about dealing with modern day society’s propensity for rage. "​​I'm of the viewpoint that because of this huge wave of conservatism and the huge wave of financial deregulation that comes with conservatism and capitalism, everyone is under pressure, under the pump, and in survival mode right now. And when people are in survival mode, they have less bandwidth for empathy and compassion, and it brings out the worst in every one of us."

Kaye understands this better than most. He's been a glimmer of hope for the wider LGBTQ+ community but also been on the receiving end of vitriol, backlash and even death threats. Earlier this year, Kaye made a joke during an appearance on Australian television. The joke riled up religious groups and resulted in ridiculous levels of outrage, thanks partly to the media's heightened reaction.

"Oh, my God, it was so intense," Kaye explains about the immediate aftermath. "It was baby’s first proper scandal in the media. And the Daily Mail conjured up about 15 articles about me. Through all the conservative media, I think something like 47 articles were written about me – even I don't think I'm that fascinating, and I shout my own name when I cum."

The joke in question wasn’t even a new one; in fact, as he makes clear, he had been telling it for about seven years. That it remained so impactful was a shock to Kaye, though the reaction itself wasn’t.

"It's an interesting thing, that the people who came at me for that joke all said the same thing. This is so disrespectful. Why do you beg for tolerance when you can't even be respectful? And like, let's talk about the equity of respect here, because your worst idea is that I'll make a joke about your hagiography. My worst fear is that you'll drag me out into the street and kill me. There's no equity in that idea."

Kaye has always pushed the envelope of comedy, cabaret and drag, using his art to underline the hypocrisy of those that peddle true hatred. What he does and how he uses his voice is more relevant than ever and needed by those that yearn for a safe space. 

The Kate Hole, photo by Darren Thomas

"We thought after the pandemic, oh, surely the news cycle will slow down. But no, it certainly feels like the roller coaster is moving quicker than ever," Kaye notes. This is reflected in his shows, two of which see a return to the Edinburgh Fringe: "A lot of rewrites have happened, more material is added, material is taken out that's not relevant anymore. Luckily, Tories will continue to be cunts so half the time that will never change. The Tories are the little black dress of being an asshole."

Both The Butch is Back and Kaye’s smash-hit late-night variety show The Kaye Hole are fast, fun and riotous. "The shows are an amazing meeting point between celebration and protest," Kaye says, "and they're full of all the best things in the world – filth, transgression, celebration, and a huge middle finger to the establishment."

They’re also cathartic experiences, both for performers and audience alike, becoming a gathering point of sorts for everyone’s frustrations and feelings. "It's like a lymphatic drainage of the soul or a Reiki massage," Kaye adds. "I'm a little more hands on than a Reiki massage though!"

The power of artforms like comedy, cabaret and drag provide space for expression and unity. "And you get to see someone who looks quite alien," Kaye says. "I mean, look at me – I look like Cruella de Vil if she competed in the men's shot put. But suddenly, people hear these stories and they relate to it and they see the humanity in something they might have thought was foreign. For me, that has to be a force for good in the world. It's that thing of you have to go and see art that is made by people who don't look like you, who don't think like you, because it's the only way we'll change the world."

Kaye describes cabaret as "the original punk" and drag as something that represents "an erasure of boundaries and borders". This explains why ordinary people are so enthralled by it but also why it can elicit a negative reaction. "If they're not ready, freedom looks threatening. Freedom makes them think about themselves, and what they're dissatisfied with. And that's where the hate comes in.

"At this moment in the wider LGBTQ+ community, all we can do is look after each other and ourselves and stay safe, and make our voices heard." As we turn to the question of how to combat this hate, Kaye says: "I have noticed a marked uprising in the amount of times I've been called out, shouted at out on the street, not just in drag, but out of drag. And this is here in Australia, which is supposedly meant to be quite a progressive country. It is more dangerous than ever to make the art that is needed."

The Butch is Back and The Kaye Hole are both sites of protest and activism but they also offer moments of joyful defiance. "Everyone, including me and the band, should leave the shows thinking what they need is a cuddle and a cigarette. It should be almost post-coital. I’d also love for audiences to be picturing in their own head the image of the world they want to live in and how to make it."